CASSEL TO CHIEFS IS A DONE DEAL

Don't see how you can say "advantage Chiefs" Pats pick up 4, count em 4, first Day picks. Plus shed roughly 18 mil from their salary cap.

So what about the mystery team? That was alla hoax?

I second TJ's comment

its a decent trade, an aging linebacker and one-year wunderkid for a second rounder, people are overhyping cassel's potential too much, if he was so good, he would have have transferred from usc and started somewhere else.

I agree that it looks like the Chiefs got the better side of this deal, but the Pats were desperate to free up cap space, and with Brady's recent comments stating he was ready, the market for Cassel is probably not what everyone thought. I think that the Pats clear up $18m in cap space, so they can go out and really improve their team.

Wouldn't it be funny if they signed Ray Lewis?

Wow... I wonder what kind of dirt Pioli has on Brian...........

There is only one reason that the Pats let this go down for a second round pick, they wanted to get rid of Vrabel and forced him on the Chiefs. Who wants to pay a 34 year old declining LB $3.35 million? If Vrabel wasn't in the deal the compensation would have been higher.

Ray Lewis could join Seau for the first centennial LB tandem in NFL History! Nice comment Dan.

Definitely think the chiefs made out pretty well. And Dawkins officially signs with the Broncos

Next step for the Pats? Acquire Ray Lewis?

Florio,

Use some of that lawyer brain and think about this one (do they do that in WV?), you keep showing your lack of football wisdom by openly questiong why the Pats only took the 34th overall pick for the Chiefs to take Vrabel and his large salary who would soon be cut (and be a PR low point) and take the Pats backup QB who would be sitting the bench and making $14.6 for doing so.

The Pats got the #34 pick in the draft and do not have to pay Cassel a dime all for just franchising a guy that they didn't plan on keeping anyways... I'm a Bucs fan and I can clearly see that this was a great move by the Pats.

Looking at the context though you have to remember that Sage Rosenfelds was just traded for a 4th round pick, and that teams have got MUCH MORE for MUCH LESS the past few years. Not to mention there HAD to have been another team willing to give up a 2nd rounder for Cassel alone...to get Vrabel who no doubt has at least a couple years left in him, plus the leadership in the deal for the 2nd rounder...eh i gotta like the KC side on this one.

Chiefs win in this deal, no question. Pats had to do what they did to clear up cap space.

Pats fans, don't make any excuses for your franchise. Do you really think the 34th (or is it 35th) ROOKIE taken this year can match the production of Cassel and Vrabel in KC? Unlikely. ADVANTAGE CHIEFS. well said, Florio.

One over the hill LB for another???? And would surely cost more upfront for Lewis. I'll pass on Lewis lke every oher team. lol at centennial lb tandum.

This does seem lopsided - Vrabel and Cassel for a 2nd round pick. However, I imagine this is only part of the package, and my money is on some sort of draft day deal between the two teams that skews in favor of the Pats.

profootballweekly.com is reporting the deal also includes "2010 considerations". So there may be another pick involved.

Arrowhead. Answer to your question:

Tom Brady for Matt Cassel

Rookie OLB/Shawn Crable for Mike Vrabel.

If Shawn Crable can't match Vrabel's 2008 production if he starts, then he doesn't deserve to be in the NFL. Vrabel's 2008 was HORRIBLE.

Regardless of how this is spun, the simple truth is that there is no way that the Pats couldn't have gotten more from someone for Vrabel and Cassel than a 2nd rounder. Even if the Pats didn't want to have to pay the salary of a 1st round pick, they certainly could have gotten more in later round picks from someone. This seems like the NFL version of one of those laughably bad fantasy league trades that everyone in the league knows is rotten.

Simple answer...........CAP SPACE.....and 5 picks in the first 85......simple as that. Patriots have ammo to sign and draft whoever they see as a fit....and also trade up or down which they LOVE to do on draft day.

I can't argue that the Chiefs won in the deal if it's Cassel AND Vrabel for the 34th pick. However, salary cap relief is important because it allows them to extend Wilfork and possibly make a splash in free agency.

The real loser in this deal is teams like the Vikings, 49ers, and Bucs who still refuse to do what it takes to get a legitimate quarterback to run their offense.

Yo Florio, why don't you do some sort of write-up on this apparent form of nepotism?

Looks like Billy Bee has a hard spot in his naughty place for Scotty Pee.

I guarantee Tampa would've given up more for Cassel alone....and Atlanta got two 2nd rounders for Matt Schaub alone....awful trade for the Pats

Maybe this was a good trade, but I expect so much more from this. . . I really, at the very least, expect more like a 2nd and a (2010) 3rd minimum.

A couple of paragraphs in that "article" would have been nice.

All you morons who are arguing this is a good deal for the Pats because they get cap relief, here's a clue:

They get that cap relief no matter what they get in return. Surprised? If they got, say, a 1st rounder for Cassel/Vrabel, they still get the cap relief! Get it?

Point is, they didn't get equal value back for what they gave up. Matt Shaub fetched TWO 2nd round picks, with far less success and far fewer games started.

Bottom line, Belichick clearly did Pioli a favor here.

I'm reading elsewhere, and I'm starting to agree, that Pioli was the brains of the operation, not Belichick.

TJ:

I wasn't comparing Cassel to Brady or Vrabel to Crable. I was comparing the terms of the DEAL. Meaning: the 34th rookie taken this year vs. Cassel & Vrabel.

Nod slowly if you understand.

Florio thinks Cassel's the next Steve Young or something! He couldnt get the Pats into the playoffs!! What do you think he's gonna do in KC. What 8-8...6-10? Cmon, Brady in that same offense would've took the Pats to the 'chip, EASY! Despite a easy schedule, he could get it done. Now that teams have footage on him things will not be easy!

Of course all the Patriot Haters are gonna jump in and claim the Chiefs ripped off the Patriots......yes...Vrabel has been a great player.....but he declined alot last season......and Cassel had a GREAT year.......one year.....I do hope they both do well in KC......and YES...Kansas City looks to have gotten two good players for a high second rounder........but there is a reason why the Patriots only wanted a second rounder......and they sure as heck aren't gonna tell any of US their reasons. I do think having 3 second rounders to go with their own first rounder plus TWO third rounders....gives them great flexibility and the 20 million in cap space lets them chase a big name Free agent as well as sign their own upcoming free agents (Wilfork..etc). So try to remember...the Patriots do not do things with ONE YEAR in mind...they plan ahead for years with each move...and this is just another example of the same. They traded two players (neither of whom they would have had on their roster NEXT season, for a high second rounder and cap space.......and now we just watch the master do what he does best....set the Patriots up as a contender for 10 more years with what he now has to work with. Best of luck to Cassel, Vrabel and Pioli...I do hope they all do well.......

Guys, if they could have gotten more for Cassel, they would have, but time was an issue to use their cap space and find a match for Cassel before the other team spent $$... Vrabel doesn't add value to trade... coming off bad year, old & slow... Belichik now doesn't have to cut him... if anything he'd garner a 5th or 6th pick, but Pioli probably knew he'd be cut...

Yes, Schaub got more, but w/ idiot teams like Vikings, 49ers, Bears and Bucs trying to pull leverage on Pats' cap situation w/ Cassel/Brady, we had to get best deal available quickly... disappointing a bit not to get another pick, but please stop saying it's lopsided due to Vrabel... he's irrelevant to analyzing this trade...

Also, an early pick in Round 2 is not like any Round 2 pick... it's almost a 1st but a lot cheaper... and in a deep draft...

I concede that there are no losers here but as a Pats fan, I am confused. The Pats knew they had to trade Cassell so they were in a position of weakness. But there are some really desperate clubs out there that would have given better value.

chiefs got punked, the pats clear cap space, get rid of a QB who didn't get them a playoff spot, and rid themselves of an overrated, over-the-hill linebacker who cost too much money.

Seems fairly obvious to me that the 2nd round comp was based on Cassell not signing a long term contract. Rumor was, he wanted 5yrs. $75 million which KC(or any other team) would be crazy to meet. The Jets gave up a 3rd and $12 million for Farve for one year, so the comp for Cassell/Vrabel is similiar. The Pats probably get more next year if he signs long term.

They would've cleared cap room no matter what they got in return, so cap room is a mute point in this argument...

....I'm a Pats fan BTW...

Florio - do your best to remind yourself and your readers that this was NOT a situation in which Cassel would be traded to the highest bidder.

The Lions or Raiders could have offered a century of 1st round draft picks - and Cassel would have refused to negotiate a long term deal with them, effectively blocking the trade.

This was a three way trade where Cassel would only approve of certain teams, with good coaches, good GMs, and enough cap space to both sign him to a lucrative deal AND bring in additional players to protect him and allow him to win.

That limits the number of teams signficantly, and both you and your readers seem to be forgetting that.

Mute Point.... ha ha ha

Arrowhead and all you other KC morons who say the Chiefs got the better end of the deal here should wait until next year before getting too excited about this deal. Clearly Vrabel is on the downside of his career and Cassel has had one year starting so far...one good year in a system that is the ONLY system he knows. He'll have to learn an entirely new system on a team that is in rebuilding mode. I wish him all the luck in the world, but as everyone knows, Belichick is a master at scouting and will either draft another phenom with these(see May, Wilfork, Brady, etc) or use the pick to bring in another free agent which in the long run will prove this deal clearly benefited the Patriots far more the KC.

Bob Kraft got screwed by the financial meltdown AND Bernie Madoff. I can understand trading Cassel, but Cassel AND Vrabel for only a second-round pick? We're looking at one year before we're uncapped. This has everything to do with money and nothing to do with making the Pats better. Pats fans should be angry, not claiming this is a genius move.

Wake up, folks. Your team is not what it once was. That's the nature of the NFL.

Arrowhead and all you other KC morons who say the Chiefs got the better end of the deal here should wait until next year before getting too excited about this deal. Clearly Vrabel is on the downside of his career and Cassel has had one year starting so far...one good year in a system that is the ONLY system he knows. He'll have to learn an entirely new system on a team that is in rebuilding mode. I wish him all the luck in the world, but as everyone knows, Belichick is a master at scouting and will either draft another phenom with these(see May, Wilfork, Brady, etc) or use the pick to bring in another free agent which in the long run will prove this deal clearly benefited the Patriots far more the KC.

moot point...my bad

Ken get's this one right. Isn't there a reason why people can't trade out of the top of the draft? I don't read this site very often, but I have to question Florio's knowledge if he doesn't see the upside of the #34 pick in the draft over the #3. The projected talent is obviously better at the top of the rnd than at the bottom, but the risk is so much greater against the cap.

Rusty.....cap space is NOT a moot point......20 MILLION is cap space we are talking...money to sign an IMPACT free agent....or two.........money to sign their impending free agents like Seymour and Wilfork.......money to sign their draft picks from all the picks they have accumulated.....all without having to cut free an impact player already under contract....do I really need to go on??? Maybe you are a Pats fan...but that doesn't mean you know what you are talking about......obviously. Cap space is NEVER a moot point....but in this case especially....do your homework before making a silly statement like that please. I respect your opinion...but you are just plain WRONG

I'm not saying cap space in unimportant in the grand scheme of things (obviously it is, I'm not stupid), but in this case, no matter what you got for Cassel, moving him would've freed up plenty of cap room, which is why it's moot.

Mark my words -- once Cassel if forced to operate outside the Patriots bubble (i.e. without NFL sanctioned refereeing assistance), he will turn into Bruce Gradkowski.

Vrabel while a fan favorite is on the downside of his career.

Patriots win on this deal.

"Rusty.....cap space is NOT a moot point......20 MILLION is cap space we are talking...money to sign an IMPACT free agent....or two.........money to sign their impending free agents like Seymour and Wilfork.......money to sign their draft picks from all the picks they have accumulated.....all without having to cut free an impact player already under contract....do I really need to go on???"

Try to rally both your brain cells together long enough to grasp this concept...

*PATS CLEAR THE CAP SPACE NO MATTER WHO THEY TRADE WITH AND WHAT THEY GET BACK FOR CASSELL*

Clearing cap space is not a justification for taking less value in return, moron. They could've cleared the same amount of cap space by trading him for the last pick in the 7th round, too. By your logic, that would be a good deal, because they got some cap space back. Idiot.

The Pats and Belichek were shrewd on this deal.

There could have been probable thinking in the Pats camp of releasing Vrabel. If they would have released him outright, the cap hit would probably been larger than his 2009 salary.

And... they always pillage players that there conference foes release.(i.e. TE - Baker)

So instead of outright releasing Vrabel, they through him into this deal.

They get:
1.) More cap relief
2.) They get him out of the conference and away from the likes of the Jets, Dolphins, and Bills.

People who are saying that the pats are smart for emptying all that cap space Matt and Mike would have taken up remember they stupidly put themselves in that position, they should have never tagged cassel they should have just let him go and they would have to not worry about the cap room at all and probably would have kept Vrable. It was a desperation trade by the Pats the Chiefs defenitly come out on top with a starter, whether he is over hyped or not, he is defenitly a starter, and an LB to help there defense temproarily until it can be built up through the draft. It would not shock me if the Chiefs make the playoffs this year. It depends on how Haley coaches but they have a top flight RB a HOF in tony Gonzales who is still performing at a great level and now a QB and the 3rd round pick in the draft, they will either get one of the big O-Linemen or go for a reciver.

I love all these people talking about how Matt Cassel cost the Patriots a chance at a playoff spot.

I'd like to direct you to a tape I have named "2008 New England Patriots: Secondary".

Enjoy!

I am a Pats fan and I trust in Bill! But I am also a bit of a cynic. Could Pioli have benefited from his direct relationship with the Pats? He likely knew the Pats position on Vrabel, he understood Cassel's position within the Pats org, he was completely aware of Brady's status, and he knows ohhh so much about the Pats modus operandi. Could he have used all of his knowledge to extort (harsh I know) a sweet deal? The Pats do not lose here but they to not exactly win either IMO.

With the 34th pick in the NFL Draft - the Patriots select Chad Jackson WR UF.

The Patriots better hit pick 34 and hit it very yard or KC walked all over the Patriots in this deal.

What exactly are the Patriots thinking?!

@Treima: You have a video of the Pats Secondary from last year? Seriously, in the games I watched, they never showed up.

Pats Secondary = nonexistent (about as funny as the "Jason David vs. Hole in Zone" thing)

Hope they get Bodden.

Can anybody tell me, if the pats were desperate to get Vrabel off the books, why did they sign Fred Taylor (who does not catch, does not play special teams, only runs, and is OLD), to a 3.5 Mio deal the same day?

Well the pats now have cap space and picks. Perhaps Their #23 and #34 for Peppers.

To the MORON RETARD who talked trash about cap space.....no my idiot friend...the Patriots cleared space NOW as needed....and by waiting..they ran the risk of no one trading for Cassel and being STUCK with 29 million in salary for 2 QB's

next time you wanna bash people....sign your name so we know who you are you freakin clown...cuz YOU are leading the idiot parade (as you put it).......assclown

I take it that KC didn't require Cassel to sign a new contract as a stipulation of the trade? If not, he will be eligible for unrestricted free agency again in 2010. Not a bad turn of events for Cassel...

"sign your name so we know who you are you freakin clown"

Coming from "Mr X." Hypocrite much? (sorry, I know that's a hard word for you to understand.) Clearing cap space was never the primary concern in this deal. Getting value for Cassell was. Come back once you have a basic grasp of how the NFL works, jackhole.

You probably heard already, but apparently Jay Cutler is angry that the Broncos listened when the Bucs and Lions approached Denver about swinging trades that would land Cassel in Denver and Cutler in either Tampa or Detroit. Shefter has been reporting variations on nfl.com. Cutler is reportedly pissed at McDaniels and Xanders, and the Broncos message boards are on fire.

Methinks the loss of Dimitroff and Pioli in successive years will expose Belichick for who he really is, for better or worse.

On the surface KC got the better of the deal but the Pats didn't lose too much...I still think it's a case of the rich (Pats) keep getting richer...now with 6 picks in the top of the draft...the real question is going to be can they continue the magic without Pioli. The other thing is that if, and it's a big if...Brady for some reason has a setback...it could get ugly up there...

Mr X's take on how the Patriots work:

Step 1. Let's franchise Cassel.
Step 2. "Oh, $hit! We need cap room! Must trade Cassel!
Step 3. Panic. Take whatever we can get!
Step 4: Sycophant Pats fans blindly defend bad deal.

Dumba$$.

can you say Scott has the dirt on Bill

"Coming from "Mr X." Hypocrite much? (sorry, I know that's a hard word for you to understand.) Clearing cap space was never the primary concern in this deal. Getting value for Cassell was. Come back once you have a basic grasp of how the NFL works, jackhole."

And in your mind......a high end second round pick has NO VALUE...right? ahhhhhh I see now......silly us....we bow to your vast knowledge......if you had bothered to read MY entire post (which may be hard for a person of your limited intelligence...but I am giving you the benefit of a 5th grade education), you would see that I didnt say ONLY cap space.......clearing 20MILLION in cap space, but the draft picks and not having to cut a big name player......along with being able to sign a high end FA or their own players.......a combination of things......so don't focus on one part of my statement to make your weak argument.....I know what I'm talking about....can't speak for anyone else....but you really have no idea what you are talking about. Of course trading a player creates cap space......but we are talking 20 million and a high second round pick.....added to their two other second rounders , first rounder and 2 third rounders gives them ammo to move up or down in the draft....target a specific big name college guy....sign their own players and grab a free agent IMMEDIATELY.....wake up......I know you fancy yourself as intelligent...but you prove otherwise every time you speak

Chefs advantage?? Yeah right. Now let's hear the odds on the Chiefs making the playoffs vs Pats. Snowball in heck vs virtual lock??

Reminds me of how the chiefs "won" last years draft. Not.

Ken: my point all along was that if they waited (not long...reports are now coming out that both Tampa and Detroit were trying to sneak in and get something done in the last minute), that would've landed them a better package while freeing up the same cap space. I think at least Tampa would be smart enough to know to not bother trying so late in the talks if they didn't have something to offer that was better than what the Chiefs were giving up, while still freeing up the same space.

"Mr Y said:

Mr X's take on how the Patriots work:

Step 1. Let's franchise Cassel.
Step 2. "Oh, $hit! We need cap room! Must trade Cassel!
Step 3. Panic. Take whatever we can get!
Step 4: Sycophant Pats fans blindly defend bad deal.

Dumba$$."

Mr Y is a fool too......no...here's how it worked you clueless Patriot Hater

1) Cassel is free agent...free to sign elsewhere with NO COMPENSATION to the Patriots

2) Patriots franchise Cassel to insure getting something of value in return.(they had no intention of keeping him unless Brady was gonna be outagain...and they would have negotiated a longer term deal if that was the case at a friendlier cap number....these ARE the Patriots we are talking about..not the Cowboys, Jets or Redskins...who toss money around without worrying about how many players they will have to cut the following seasons with the crazy salaries they give out now)

3) Patriots do not want a first rounder because the salaries for those guys are always more than a player is worth coming out of college

4) Patriots trade Cassel for a early second round pick, getting good value for a guy they almost cut in the preseason and who may be a one year wonder (not saying he will be...but who knows.....time will tell)

5) Mr X proves that Mr Y is another Patriot hating clueless moron

case closed

The Patriots got screwed. NFLN is reporting that both Detroit and Tampa were trying to trade of him. This was nothing more than a goodbye kiss to Scott Pioli.

Rusty......I understand that...but my point is...the Patriots got exactly the deal they wanted......and they have their reasons for that. They didn't want a high first rounder....Belichek has never built his teams on those picks...his strengths lie in the late first round and second and third rounds.....he is a master at grabbing versatile players who fit the Patriots mold without having to pay exorbitant signing bonuses to early first round picks who have yet to take a snap or prove themselves in the NFL....and most of whom take 2-3 years to become worth the money. So I do see your point.....but my point is...the Patriots have operated this way for years.....and have used extra draft picks to move up and grab guys they have targeted...or acquire players like Moss, Dillon and Welker. So it's simply a matter of them sticking to their master plan...which has brought them three super bowls, one near miss and a near perfect season in the past 8 years. I trust Belichek.....

No, Ken, I read your whole post, and am still trying to recover the IQ points lost to that assault on the English language.

"Of course trading a player creates cap space......but we are talking 20 million and a high second round pick....."

You would have gained the same cap space if you had gotten Tampa Bay's or Detroits first rounder, capiche? That is not a valid argument for getting a 2nd rounder.

"added to their two other second rounders"

So if they hadn't taken KC's deal, then the Pats don't have those other two second rounders? I don't understand. See, I thought they had those second rounders from before the trade NO MATTER WHO THEY TRADED WITH OR WHAT THEY GOT FOR CASSEL. Some people would say that their existing picks that they already had prior to the trade have absolutely ZERO bearing on evaluating this trade, but what do I know, I'm stupid, right?

"added to their two other second rounders , first rounder and 2 third rounders gives them ammo to move up or down in the draft...."

Because we all know if they had gotten, say, two second rounders... or a first rounder... or a first and a second rounder... they wouldn't have had the ammo to move up or down in the draft, right? Mr X something you can move up and down on, Einstein.

The Pats have to extend the contracts of Logan Mankins and Vince Wilfork, two upcoming unrestricted free agents who are extremely valuable to the future of the franchise. Why wouldn't they want the cap space? Either one of those guys is more important than an additional pick: they're proven commodities. Given the light market, I'd say that was a pretty sound trade for both sides.

The point is the Patriots should have been able to get a better deal- something like two 2nd round picks or a 2nd & a 3rd.

Ken says:
"They didn't want a high first rounder...."

"first rounder and 2 third rounders gives them ammo to move up or down in the draft"

So they can use KC's #2 to move up or down in the draft, but they can't use KC's #1 to do the same.

I bow before your exquisite supreme knowledge and insight.

Now move along, Mr X has something waiting for you.

I'm not talking about getting a high 1st rounder (although the speculation around here yesterday was the #3 pick was the deal for Cassel and Vrabel, which is an exciting preposition...I'd be lying if I said I didn't have visions of Aaron Curry in a Pats uniform), I'm talking multiple picks...a 2nd and a 3rd, or a 2nd and a pick or two next year...anything more than one 2nd rounder, granted its 2 picks out of the first round, but it's still not enough, at least IMO...especially when it looks like other teams might have been willing to offer more

As a Chiefs fan and a citizen of Kansas City I hope this works. For a second rounder it was a good deal for the Chiefs.

DJS said:

The point is the Patriots should have been able to get a better deal- something like two 2nd round picks or a 2nd & a 3rd.

----------

See, somebody who gets it!

But according to Ken, then they couldn't have moved up or down in the draft. Or gotten the same cap space. Or something.

Last time...the Patriots DID NOT WANT another 1st rounder......the fact that you seem to think that YOUR thinking is better than theirs........makes me laugh. How many franchises have you run in the NFL? I'm trying to explain to you how the Patriots run their team and why they have been the top team (along with the Steelers) in the NFL for 8 years now..... so You are right...and the Patriots management...and all the NFL insiders are wrong.....based on your many years of armchair quarterbacking from your computer desk??? Ok..got it......you win,....you are the master........ok...I dont wanna keep you from your next big speech abou thow you run NFL franchises......dipstick. God...just talking to you lowers everyone's IQ

Rusty, that last post was directed at that moron...not you.....

Mr X says:
"3) Patriots do not want a first rounder because the salaries for those guys are always more than a player is worth coming out of college"

Congratulations, you win today's "dumbest comment on the internet" award!

They don't want first rounders--gotcha. We all know that the Pats never trade those, right? Yeah, they have no value. That's why when the Pats have first round picks, they just skip them, right? Nosiree, they don't want them. Brilliant!!

And god forbid they get two second rounders.... or a #2 and #3... nope! They only wanted just the one pick! LMAO!

Gotta run. But thanks for the laughs, jackass.

I think the Pats could have got more compensation in the deal...or dealt Cassel to somebody else for more compensation.

I think they didn't because BB wanted to give Pioli a little send off gift. I know that sounds silly in the context of big business, but these two guys are very tight friends and I honestly believe BB is purposely blowing a little wind into Pioli's sails as a send off present, like a father might do for a son, while still achieving what he needs by moving Cassel. I know this might sound silly but these two guys are as tight as brothers and I don't you can overlook that relationship.

"How many franchises have you run in the NFL?"

None. You?

"based on your many years of armchair quarterbacking from your computer desk"

Need I point out the irony yet again?

"I'm trying to explain to you how the Patriots run their team"

K thx.

"so You are right...and the Patriots management...and all the NFL insiders are wrong...."

Lost me there with your supreme logic. I have yet to read one NFL insider that doesn't agree with me that KC took the Pats to the cleaners on this one. Every major sports site or blog that I've read today has said that the Pats didn't get fair value for Cassel.

"just talking to you lowers everyone's IQ"

I love irony.

Are you going to delete this post also because you don't want to hear any critisicm of your beloved Patriots. Show a pair of nuts and actually let all of the posts stay up you useless Patriot shill.

Pat said:

"Belichick is a master at scouting and will either draft another phenom with these(see May, Wilfork, Brady, etc)"

Seen the last few Pats*' drafts have you? Other than Mayo (taken at 10, BTW--not too tough to screw that up), I can't think of any real contributors they've drafted in the last few years (and that was with Pioli and Dimitroff). Maroney's a bust and Meriweather looks pedestrian. Chad Jackson anyone? I'd say you've got a 50/50 that this pick ends up being Chad's clone.

They haven't had a good draft in the last three years--

2008 -
Rd Sel # Player Position School
1 10 Jerod Mayo OLB Tennessee
2 62 Terrence Wheatley CB Colorado
3 78 Shawn Crable OLB Michigan
3 94 Kevin O'Connell QB San Diego State
4 129 Jonathan Wilhite CB Auburn
5 153 Matt Slater WR UCLA
6 197 Bo Ruud LB Nebraska

2007
Rd Sel # Player Position School
1 24 Brandon Meriweather DB Miami (Fla.)
4 127 Kareem Brown DT Miami (Fla.)
5 171 Clint Oldenburg T Colorado State
6 180 Justin Rogers LB Southern Methodist
6 202 Mike Richardson DB Notre Dame
6 208 Justise Hairston RB Central Connecticut State
6 209 Corey Hilliard OT Oklahoma State
7 211 Oscar Lua LB USC
7 247 Mike Elgin G Iowa

2006 -
Rd Sel # Player Position School
1 21 Laurence Maroney RB Minnesota
2 36 Chad Jackson WR Florida
3 86 David Thomas TE Texas
4 106 Garrett Mills RB Tulsa
4 118 Stephen Gostkowski K Memphis
5 136 Ryan O'Callaghan T California
6 191 Jeremy Mincey LB Florida
6 205 Dan Stevenson G Notre Dame
6 206 Le Kevin Smith DT Nebraska
7 229 Willie Andrews CB Baylor

I find it interesting that it has gone full circle with the Chiefs being the ones that made it possible for Cassel to start last season by taking out Brady's knee. Without that happening, the Chiefs are still looking for their QB.

2008 -
Rd Sel # Player Position School
1 10 Jerod Mayo OLB Tennessee
2 62 Terrence Wheatley CB Colorado
4 129 Jonathan Wilhite CB Auburn
6 197 Bo Ruud LB Nebraska

2007
Rd Sel # Player Position School
1 24 Brandon Meriweather DB Miami (Fla.)
6 202 Mike Richardson DB Notre Dame

2006 -
Rd Sel # Player Position School
1 21 Laurence Maroney RB Minnesota
3 86 David Thomas TE Texas
4 118 Stephen Gostkowski K Memphis
5 136 Ryan O'Callaghan T California
6 206 Le Kevin Smith DT Nebraska
7 229 Willie Andrews CB Baylor

All these guys made some sort of contributions so far in their careers, whether it be on special teams or on one side of the ball. Maroney is arguably a bust, but it's hard to tell when he's been injured so often.

Only a 2nd round pick? Vrabel, 34 in August, was in the last year of his contract. Matt played 1 year of football since high school. He was a 7th round pick. The Pats now own 5 of the first 89 picks in the draft and are well under the cap. What better place could you be in as a team?

C'mon. A little analysis would be nice.

mr x, i have been questioning your logic since you first started arguing with mr y. by your reason in your last response, i am assured that you, indeed, are a moron just as mr. y said.

let me quote you....
3) Patriots do not want a first rounder because the salaries for those guys are always more than a player is worth coming out of college

by this logic, why have the patriots not traded their first rounders each year for second rounders? why did they make a fuss last year about being penalized for cheating? you did in fact say that "the patriots do not want a first rounder", did you not?

your logic makes absolutely sense. you need to get a clue. if the patriots had been offered the chiefs first rounder instead of the second rounder, you honestly believe that they would not have taken it?

Murabma,

typical...leave out info that would prove you're wrong...let's go back a little further to get a real picture of NE's draft history. These are still major contributors:

Year Pick Name College
2001 6 Richard Seymour DT Georgia
2003 13 Ty Warren DT Texas A&M
2004 21 Vince Wilfork DT Miami
2005 32 Logan Mankins OG Fresno State

pats2009, you could even go further and remember that Brady was pick #199 in 2000 and Murabma just happened to leave out the reason this thread started; 2005 7th round draft pick MATT CASSEL....he's turned out ok!

Bottom line, they free up 18 million in cap space by trading these two. They have 5 picks out of the first 89. They get a 2nd round pick for a guy who was a free agent and would have signed elsewhere. The Pats would have received ZERO compensation, never mind a second round pick, when he left!

I think we have to look at the big picture...."In Bill We Trust!"

I don't think we can guage this deal until we see what the flip side is going to be. If this deal was indeed part of a plan to bring in a guy like Peppers, as some have suggested, then it is a good move. I guess we'll have to wait and see how it all comes together.

Pats got the 34th pick in the draft for an UNRESTRICTED FREE AGENT plus an over the hill line backer.

Gosh what a bunch of dumbasses they are.

Now remind me again what the Titans got for Haynesworth? Big fat nothing by any chance?

He was tagged as the franchise player and accepted the offer, thus, Cassel was under contract to NE, and not a UFA.

Do we need to define what an unrestricted free agent is for the slooooooower commenters here?

Slow yourself buttercup.

Pats never had any intention of keeping Cassel on the roster for next year. They used the franchise tag to finesse the 34th pick in the draft. Bill fills in some tag paper work, works the phone for a couple hours and gets the pick. Classic something for nothing. Didn't cost him a penny.

No doubt Cassel & agent colluded in the deal but all's fair in love, war & nfl, right?

another former patriot who will do NOTHING

"Pats never had any intention of keeping Cassel on the roster for next year."

Intent does not factor into whether a player is under contract, a UFA, or an RFA. They are one or the other. Cassel agreed to a one-year franchise tender before ever becoming a UFA, which is how NE held his rights--intent is irrelevant. You called Cassel a UFA, and you are wrong.

Haynesworth, you mention in comparison, was franchised the prior year, and then negotiated a one-year contract that precluded the team from using the tag on him after the 2008 season if he met agreed-on benchmarks. He was a UFA, Cassel was not.

As for collusion between Cassel and his agent, I have no idea idea what you're talking about. These classifications and contracts are spelled out in the CBA, as they have been for well over a decade. Your ignorance does not mean anybody colluded.

Gosh Buttercup you are a tad naive aren't you?

Belichick & his Patriot pals have managed to turn a free agent player into the 34th pick in the 2009 draft. No other team has managed that trick with any of their free agents. So that makes Billy B smarter than the average bear.

Now be a good chap, stop throwing insults in my general direction and try thinking this through. Hint: start with the Pats not willing to pay starting QB money to a backup, add their need to get their roster younger, and see where that takes you....

.. or not.

"Belichick & his Patriot pals have managed to turn a free agent player into the 34th pick in the 2009 draft. No other team has managed that trick with any of their free agents. So that makes Billy B smarter than the average bear."

A team must have rights to that player to trade them. Cassel was under contract to NE, he was not a free agent as you claim. Though you're dead wrong when you earlier said Cassel was a UFA, you're absolutely right that no team has ever turned a free agent into a #34 pick, including the Pats... because FAs can't be traded, they're, um, free...

And he's only smarter than the average bear if the #34 pick is the best value he could get. So far, every expert that's checked in says he got taken to the cleaners and that this was a gift to Pioli.

For further reference, here's a nutshell summary, since you don't seem to understand the terms you're using:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/National_Football_League#Player_contracts_and_compensation

"Hint: start with the Pats not willing to pay starting QB money to a backup,"

Missed that in my earlier reply. Again, just one more thing that has ZERO relevance to the value he brings back in trade.

I'm happy to consider any expert's opinion that we got fair value in this deal. Moronic sycophants posting comments in a follow up blog don't qualify... feel free to share any links to any analysts or insiders that say Belichick got fair value in this deal. So far, I have yet to see one. Just a bunch of clueless morons who want to talk about saving cap space, or starting vs backup salary... when the whole issue is fair return in a trade.

Hey, whaddayaknow... here's a new analysis that just popped up on this very site...

http://nbcsports.msnbc.com/id/29444849/

And go figure... they think the Pats got ripped off too. Just like all the others. They're just not as smart as you realfan49, right?

"4 118 Stephen Gostkowski K Memphis"

Yeah, he made a slight contribution. Like replacing a Patriot legend named Vinatieri - ever ask a real Pats fan if they miss Adam these days? We don't.

As a Pats fan of more than 30 years, I'll trust BB to make trades which he thinks will benefit the team long term. I've seen him let Law, Milloy, Bledsoe and Vinatieri go and we've stayed on top, I'll give him the benefit of the doubt on this one until we see how it all shakes out.

Vrabes was a great Patriot, and I'm sad to see him go. I wish him, Cassel and Pioli all the best in KC.

There there Buttercup, don't get too upset you can't figure this one out. Go lie down and have a nice long sleepy byes. Mommy will cuddle you if you say pretty please. Nightie night.

It's OK, realfan49, I wasn't really expecting you to be able to make an intelligent argument to defend any of your positions anyway. Go on with your pathetic self, coming up with irrelevant points and taking cheap shots to avoid presenting any facts or sound reasoning. Just par for the course for those like you.