On Cassel, Pats Weren't Waiting Around

Get real! This Belichick/Pioli farce

belichick trading to HIS LONG-TIME BUDDY not only a franchised player but a qb with such stats when so many teams are looking for a qb AND throws in a versatile maybe the most versatile player in the nfl and only gets a #2. When NE was offered in a 3 way trade a #1 and a #3 from Tampa Bay, with Tampa Bay getting QB Cutler from Denver and Patriots sending Cassel to Denver.

In 2008, the Chiefs traded FRANCHISED TE (not a QB)Jared Allen to the Minnesota Vikings. In exchange, the Vikings sent to the Chiefs a 1st round pick, which they used to select OT Branden Albert, and TWO 3rd round picks.

ESPN's Chris Mortensen reported that the Patriots turned down a 1st- AND a 3rd-round pick from the Bucs in a potential 3-way trade that would have sent Matt Cassel AND Vrabel to Denver and Jay Cutler to the Bucs.

But we all know Belichick and Pioli would NEVER do anything underhanded!

Curran ... isn't this an exactly 180 degree reversal from your column yesterday titled "No reason explains why Pats settled for so little"??

You should get your facts straight before running off at the mouth trying to score a controversial headline ...

I'm very disappointed ... you wouldn't have gotten away with this at the Projo!

Where are you from Bob, Denver or Tampa or Detroit?

The deal isn't underhanded if everything is up front, on the other hand there is no honor in making a deal where you hang out the first person involved. That is unethical negotiating, much like car dealers are accused of.

In the meantime....we have a new QB! and linebacker!

Go Chiefs!

Nice analogy about the house Tom. Except there is no hurry to sell the house. So why not explore other options. The Patriots have another month and a half before the draft. Why free up $17 mil cap space today? If the Pats use up a significant amount of that cap space in the next week, then yes they made the right choice. But if that $17 mil is untouched through April, then this trade is inexplicable. Tom, I hope you watch what the Pat's do with this new cap space. I know I will.

If Belichick wanted to make a deal to send two players to the Chiefs for the #34 overall pick, that is his and the team's perogative and right. If he wanted to give Cassel and Vrabel a good home together in a place where there would be fully appreciated for many years to come, both financially and by the fans and the organization, it's his business to do so. He is paid by the Patriots organization to make good decisions and bring championships to New England. Obviously, he as succeeded wildly in that regard.

I am very happy for the players involved and for the Kansas City organization. I also hope that Belichick's friendship with Pioli was a deciding factor, because honor and loyalty are values we don't see much of anymore in the NFL. Kudos to that. ; )

And, one other point, it does appear that the coach in Denver (who just arrived from New England) is not on good terms with the very successful Mr. Belichick. Trying to strong arm a deal at the last moment and destroy the career of a gifted, talented quarterback AND lay claim to the success of Cassel appeared to be a little too much to swallow. So, the deal with KC effectively creates a thorn in that moron's side for many years to come. Nice play. ; )

Looks like New England has called in the favors from their media friends for some damage control.

Facts are that a QB deal like the one done in the past in the NFL have gone for 2 number ones.

I have read that Denver was willing to offer their number one pick the 12th in the draft straight across for Cassel without the Buc's or Detroit.

As for all the hype on Cassel, anyone remember the hype on Anderson after one good year with the Browns or the dude from Miami. One good year playing on a good team does not make a great QB. Besides anyone who would trade Cutler for Cassel is a nut anyway.

The Pats now have 4 picks in the first 58. I look for them to make a deal with a team that is significantly ahead of them in the draft picking order (K.C.?) that goes like this - the Pats get that team's 1st round pick in exchange for their 1st round pick, #23, and one of the Pat's THREE 2nd round picks. That way the Pats STILL get 3 picks in the 1st 58, one of which might be in the single digits, and they now have a lot more money to go after free agents with.

The rich get richer because they are SMARTER.

It was a crazy idea postulated by the Bucs and Detroit to try and get Cutler who is worth far far more than Cassel. Cutler is worth at least two 1st, two 2nd's and two 3rd's in a trade. Cutler is an all pro and will be for the next 10 to 15 years and is already in the same company as Manning, Favre, Elway and other great QB's and everyone knows it. He has a great arm, accuracy, mobility, quick feet and is very smart and young. Denver never considered it at all you idiots. It was a farcical idea to try and trade for Cutler like this. A joke. et al.

"The rich get richer because they are SMARTER."

There's a serious hole in your theory there, Terry. If their goal was to move up in the first round, they could have gotten that from either the proposed Den/Det/NE or TB/Den/NE. You're proposing they deliberately took the lower, 2nd round pick so they could bundle it and move up? The other deals on the table would have accomplished that, and would have left the Pats with more picks, to boot.

The rich would have gotten even richer by taking the other deal. Taking this one doesn't make them smarter, it's the dumber move if their goal was more/higher picks.

I have faith that Coach Bill knows what he is doing. Personally, I thought the Pats would have gotten a 2nd round pick plus an established payer for Cassell, let alone including Vrabel. But that is why I'm a fan and not a Coach/G.M.

I think the whole deal was Belichick didn't want Cassel to end up in Denver with McDaniels. By trading Cassel to KC, that now complicates their QB picture more than it helps.

Anyone remember Tyler Thigpen? Right now the job may be Cassel's, but we all know how the QB carousel works when you have 2 guys with ample ability. KC should do the smart thing and start shopping Thigpen immediately to assure Cassel that he's their guy.

KC was a bad team that wasn't lacking QB play, so I think the more puzzling question is why did the Chiefs do it?

This is the most reasonable story I've read on the whole situation. Seems like a lot of other media outlets like to jump on the theory that the Pats were trying to stiff a former assistant and not trade Cassel to Denver. Of course that story has the most intrigue, but notice how other reports have no facts to back that up.

With this rational as Tom pointed out, the deal was already in motion with no other teams inquiring until Saturday, when the deal was near complete. And let's say the Pats decided to stop and discuss with Denver/Tampa/Detroit ... there's a chance that falls through, and then Pioli backs off and they're back at square one.

Now the Pats have three second rounders (spread out across the round), and at least two compensatory picks landing in their laps (one a likely 3rd rounder), leaving them with a lot of flexibility on draft day and in their wallets.

Pats fans got major hosed on this one. A starting QB that won 11 games - and at his age - for a single draft pick?! That alone would have made this a major rip-off, but no they thow in Vrabel as well?! They shoulkd have bargained with another team - there are sevreral out there - desperate for a QB and rec'd a few starters or several picks in return. As it stands, this is one horrific misstep by the Pats.

David B said:
Where are you from Bob, Denver or Tampa or Detroit?

In the meantime....we have a new QB! and linebacker!

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yes, because of this under the table typical belichick/pioli way of operating - maybe one day some video or voice recording of belichick's own recordings system like blagovich will become public?

repeat- a #19 plus a 3rd rounder is better for your team for your fans than a #34

at least on this planet it still is

one might wonder if Belicheck might be planning a move and is lining up a team for himself??

I agree with TERRY, this was a brilliant move by the Pats. Belichick is a strategical genius.

Lee B,

The rush was to free cap space. The Pats want to make some free agent moves and perhaps resign Wolfork and Mankins, but they didn't have the space to do anything until they moved Cassell.

Don't underestimate the fact that KC took on Cassell without a long term deal in place. Cassell wasn't obligated to do one, KC taking on the risk of signing him meant the deal could happen immediately. The Pats took a fair deal now so they could move on quickly rather than risking no deal with KC if they screwed around with Detroit or Tampa.

To extend Tom's analogy, it's selling the house to the guy holding a check instead of hoping the other one is really interested and risking having the first one walk. You'll go broke always thinking there's a better deal around the corner.

since when did jay cutler become worthy to be compared to manning, elway, and marino? cause he has a strong arm?! jeff george had a strong arm too. probably stronger than all those other guys. i guess that means he's as good as those 3 HOF players too. and no player in the league is worth 6 draft picks. not brady, not manning, not AP, not all of them combined, you boob. get a clue. and there will be no qb controversy in KC due to tyler thigpen. if you objectively watch the nfl and have a clue what it is you are watching then you have already figured out that he sucks. the team won 2 games. they pick 3rd. controversy over.

and i'm sick of hearing how the pats got hosed cause they gave up vrabel too. vrabel was a throw in and a salary dump. once again, if you are an objective fan of the game vrabel had seriously lost a step last year. he's not the same player he was. he's a 34 yr old OLB, how many years does he really have left?!

i completely agreed with curran's take on this situation. belichick found a taker and didn't want to run the risk of it falling through. simple as that. the other teams got involved too late. how is that belichick's fault? now he has plenty of cap space to either go out and make a big splash with a free agent, sign a few serviceable guys, or simply use it to lock up guys like wilfork(better than haynesworth btw) and seymour.

i know all these angry posts are just fans of other teams who are pissed because bill belichick, the greatest football mind of all time now has scored himself 4 picks in the first 2 rounds of a draft that is supposed to be the deepest in years. there's 4 defensive starters for next year. man, i love being a pats fan. Dynasty #2 has officially just begun.

Tommy, this is a nice write-up on what probably went down between Belichick and
Pioli. I can't wait for draft day to see what other deals they can do together that will p*ss off the rest of the AFC pretenders in NY, SD, Denver, Pitt, and Indy. Bob S, which city do you live in?

I love how these nitwit fans like Bob S are experts on football and know more than BB. They should send their resumes to Mr. Kraft. He would foolish not to hire these smart guys to help poor Bill figure out how to run a football team.

Personally I was excited yesterday morning when i read that the Chiefs have got Cassel. I dont see how this is a bad move for K.C. They are not going to have to pay him the 14 million this year. They can work out a long term deal probably somewhere in the 8 to 9 million a year neighborhood.
Plus getting Vrable, he will bring some stability and some strong leadership to the locker room and the defensive side of the ball. Something KC has needed for several years. And they still have their first round pick with plenty of money to spare. I am excited for the 2009 Chiefs. They are already a better team than they were in 08. Cant wait for opening weekend.

I can't believe the posts on here stating that Cutler is worth way more than Cassell, especially the one stating that Cutler is worth two 1's, two 2's and two 3's. Are u freakin' kidding me??!! That guy is the MOST OVERRATED QB in the game, and clearly does not have the moxie to lead his team to the Super Bowl, let alone the playoffs. Cassel blows him away, hands down.

Tom - why are all the "experts" talking like this was a situation where Cassel was available to the highest bidder - a two way negotiation?

It wasn't. It was a three way deal and Cassel could choose his landing spot among the interested paries by refusing to negotiate a long term contract.

If he decided that KC, with a proven GM, a ton of cap space to pay him and assemble a supporting cast of characters, and lower pressure to win than say, the Broncos, was the best place for him, it wouldn't matter how many first round draft choices other teams were offering the Patriots.

In fact, isn't it in Cassel's best interest NOT to have his new team give up high draft picks in return for him? All Cassel cares about is a good contract on a good team. Losing the 3rd pick in the draft makes his new team weaker, not stronger.

You "experts" should give a little more creedence to the cards that Cassel had to play in this three-way negotiation.

Forget Bob S, what the hell is MIP smoking? Cassel is worth "at least two 1st, two 2nd's and two 3rd's"? Get off the crack pipe dude!

oops. meant to say Cutler, not Cassel.

Tom,

Is there any possibility that Patriots management had grown tired of Vrabel? Maybe his play on the field no longer outweighed his role as the NFLPA union rep. I know he was critical of Patriots Place and had repeatedly expressed the opinion that players should be entitled to revenue from the complex. I don't think these comments on their own would cause them to ship out Vrabel, but coupled with his poor 2008 and going into a contract year, do you think the Patriots/Krafts tired of hearing Vrabel's opinions?

Vrabel's a 2001 Camry that we want to go to a good home? OMG, ROFLMAO!!

I'll reserve judgement on this deal until after the draft, no one knows what Belichick has in mind but with 3 rings, 4 Superbowl appearances and a 16-0 season I'm willing to give him the benefit of the doubt.

Belichick helps no one who's not on the NE payroll, there's no way this was an underhanded deal to give any advantage to Pioli. Get real, this is the NFL.

Author: Dawn
And read up on the latest. The Bucs joined the party too late. Maybe they were too busy counting all their cash.
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too late? a day and a half into free agency? and who said so? belichick? give me a break!

Cassil was a good soldier...maybe Belicheck rewarded him by not throwing him to the lions (no pun intended)now he has a good home and we have a very good draft pick coming and a lot of cash to spend on improving the team.

I think Belichick did is partially as a favor to Pioli since they were so close, but also because he does want to do something on the FA market, and if he waited, he would be shut out there.

"Bill is one of the most decisive people you could meet. When he makes his mind up on something, it is done. And he's not looking back and wondering if it was the right thing to do."

Like taking a head coaching job and then backing out? Is that the kind of dicisive person he is?

Vrabel was being cut......and because Belichek thinks so highly of him.....he traded him to KC so he would still get his salary. if he was cut...he would have gotten nothing. YES, Belichek did a favor for a player he respected and who did alot for his team......and as far as Cassel goes....please people...no more of this "so and so offered two picks and a first and third........it has already been reported on numerous sites and outlets that the paperwork for the KC trade HAD ALREADY BEEN SUBMITTED. The other offers came in too late.....
Cassel also could have refused to negotiate a long term deal if he was dealt someplace he didn't really wanna go......thus killing the deal. So Belichek gets crucified if he is a stone cold businessman....and he gets crucified if he shows a heart and does a favor for a player he respects........just shows that all the Belichek /Patriot haters will find a flaw in anything he does.......it's too bad people dont do reseacrh before spouting off

Tom, how can you say there was no market for Cassel other than KC (complete. with. one. word. sentences. to. drive. home. the point.) when as part of these 3-way dealings, the Broncos (as reported by ESPN) were willing to give up their own 1st round pick in order to bring Cassel to Denver?

Because, quite obviously, that means KC wasn't the only team interested.

When dealing with analyzing people who are supposedly good at what they do there is a compulsion to find out how and why they did a particular thing. Now that I've stated the obvious I'm a bit lost on why the Pats did what they did although I think (think) it has to do with freeing up cash. Yes they dumped about 16 mill in salaries, but I can't figure out the Vrabel thing. He was worth about 3.5 million in the overall figure and I can only assume that since he was in his last contract year, and the Pats are trying to get young at linebacker they figured they'd at least put him in a good situation for all of his work. I'm a bit skeptical with all of the talk on the other deals because of these teams were serious why didn't they act sooner. Note that the Patriots are pretty stacked and do need to get younger in areas. The areas where they need to get youth are in the secondary and linebacker. Otherwise they're covered. I figure that they figured that they can find good value outside of the third round because they've assumed that there are no Jerrod Mayos in this years draft but a number of Gary Guytons.

Call it good fortune, luck, or he who acts first, (the bird) gets the worm. In this case he (Chiefs) got a "BIG WORM", and a little one too. I Can't wait for the 2009 NFL Season to begin, Screw the baseball season, move up the NFL To June 1St, to say this Cheif's fan is happy, estatic is an understatment. With all the brown noises saying how great Denver's "Wonder Boy" is, just wait. If we can put together a half way good defense, this is going to be a much different and much better Chief's team. Now, if we can just get something for Johnson, and if maybe a decent running back that don't need his dippers changes after every game, Look out NFL. The Chiefs Live again!!!!

"I figure that they figured that they can find good value outside of the third round because they've assumed that there are no Jerrod Mayos in this years draft but a number of Gary Guytons."

Have you bothered to even glance at this years crop of LB's? Why do people post things that they don't know anything about?

The REAL losers in all of this are those teams that thought they could wait until draft day to deal. The Lions could have Cassel for their #20 pick, but they messed up. Everyone that the Pats needed the Cap space to spend it on FA signings, Pioli just seemed to know it better than the rest. Besides, you think Cassel would have gone to the Lions?

"You "experts" should give a little more creedence to the cards that Cassel had to play in this three-way negotiation."

Cassel was under contract to the Pats. He signed the standard, one-year franchise tender. He does not have a no-trade clause. Cassel had no cards to play, and no standing to determine his destination.

Of course Cassel had the cards - he could have refused to take a long term deal, kept the 14mill for one season and then hit the open market. No team is going to give anything of value for a player that won't make a long term commitment.

"he could have refused to take a long term deal"

Perhaps you're not aware... he is in KC without a long-term agreement, so that point is irrelevant.

"No team is going to give anything of value for a player that won't make a long term commitment."

Breaking news! Kansas City gave up their 2nd round pick for a player that hasn't made a long term commitment.

Or perhaps I misunderstood you--that could be read another way. Are you suggesting that KC's 2nd round pick is nothing of value? I'd beg to differ.

Perhaps the deal was "hush money" so Pioli stays quiet about whatever skeletons him and Belichick have in the closet. And to throw in a couple of cliches... "if a deal sounds too good to be true, it probably is," and "sometimes the simplest explanation is the right one"

Get the pop-up off this page ... there is no close option and it blocks the blog

MJ - Your reply to me - This has all the marks of an opening gambit by Belichik: The Pats now have 4 of the 1st 58 choices in the draft. I stand by my prediction that they will package their first choice, #23, and one of their 2nd rounders and move into the single digits with the trade. Perhaps #3?

And they'll STILL have 2 second rounders.

This is not over - We'll see.

mj - one more thing - don't forget that last year they had the 7th choice and gave it to NO for their 2009 2nd rounder and then selected Mayo, defensive rookie of the year.

Detroit and Tampa Bay sat around for a month. They could have negotiated for Cassel at any time. Then when the deal was done they ran up screaming "Wait A minute!!" while the train was leaving the station. There wasn't anything underhanded. Matt Cassel played himself into a starting position last year, and he wasn't going to get that in New England with a healthy Tom Brady. Mike Vrabel was probably going to be cut if a trade could not be made. This way Vrabel keeps the last year on his contract, Matt Cassel gets a starting job in a decent market, KC gets two great players, and New England can rebuild the defense.
Detroit and Tampa have bigger problems and they aren't going solve them by hemming and hawing.

What a ridiculous trade ... maybe, just maybe cassel, but not Vrabel too. They traded an old Camry for an even older Corrola.

We needed Vrabel!

While I agree this is one of the best articles I've read regarding these trades, I few key points are missing.

1 - When Matt Cassell had the franchise tag placed on him, the deal was supposed to be that he could only be traded for TWO FIRST-round draft picks. Not one Second-round, AND Mike Vrabel.

2 - Why isn't it mentioned that Scott Pioli, besides being Coach Bill's good friend, is also his SON-IN-LAW?

I have great faith in the Patriot's system, but this one blows my mind. We have no idea what condition Brady is in, other than that he's capable of appearing at fashion events with his model girlfriend/fiance'/wife. He showed himself not to be a team player by abstaining from all games after his injury last season, while other injured players were always seen on the sidelines supporting their teammates. Of all players, Brady should have been there guiding and mentoring Cassell. Perhaps the wrong QB was traded...

@NEPatsFan:

"1 - When Matt Cassell had the franchise tag placed on him, the deal was supposed to be that he could only be traded for TWO FIRST-round draft picks. Not one Second-round, AND Mike Vrabel."

The two first-round picks applies if a player who is under the franchise tag signs an offer sheet with another team. The franchising team then has right of first refusal and can either (a) choose to match the offer and retain the player or (b) let the player go and automatically receive two first-rounders from the team that signed him.

Cassel accepted and signed the franchise offer, so he was under contract to NE for one year at a salary equal to the average of the five highest paid QBs in 2008.

As such, he was now the Pats property to do what they wanted to with him, and they could trade him for whatever they like (which is frequently what the franchise tag is used for, to be able to get something of value in return for someone who otherwise would have walked as a FA or been too expensive for the team to retain.)

But you are right that is is extremely curious that Belichick let him go for less than he could have gotten... all the reasons people bring up to try to fanwank the decision (paying a backup starter money, Cassel being able to dictate where he wanted to go , the Pats don't want first round picks, and whatever other nonsense has been presented are nonsensical.)

And I was not aware that Pioli is Belichick's son-in-law. Seriously? That may explain it better than anything else.

@Terry:

"The Pats now have 4 of the 1st 58 choices in the draft. I stand by my prediction that they will package their first choice, #23, and one of their 2nd rounders and move into the single digits with the trade. Perhaps #3?

And they'll STILL have 2 second rounders."

They very well could package picks, the Pats are known for their maneuvering around the draft board. But your argument still doesn't make sense.

Let's take your example that they could trade their first (#23) plus a second to move up in the first round. That means they traded Vrabel, Cassel, #23, plus a 2nd-rounder to move up. Leaving them with one #1 and two #2s--or three picks in the first two rounds.

It has been reported that Denver was offering their #12 overall to NE to get Cassel. In this scenario, NE *still* has four of the first 58 picks, but they have two #1s and two #2s instead of one #1 and three #2s. And they still have Vrabel, who they can trade for another draft pick or cut if they're in a hurry to reclaim the cap space.

The proposed deal with TB would have had a similar impact, bringing them a #1 and a #3.

If the goal is indeed to either get a second #1, or to package their existing #1 to move up, then it makes no sense whatsoever for Belichick to do the KC deal. We can speculate and come up with all these weird gyrations all day, but had they taken the Denver or TB deal, they'd have already accomplished the goal that you propose they give up even more draft picks to obtain. It's completely nonsensical.

uh, being a Chiefs fan myself, I was wondering why all the boasting about Chiefs being all that now that we got Cassel? He won't be able to do anything from his back-side plus he doesn't play O-line...or D-Line or D-back. The Chiefs need many more players than Cassel and Vrabel. At least they won't be drafting Sanchez like everybody was saying. Maybe they will get the OLB Curry to help rebuild the defense.

I'm not saying this is a bad move but only a drop in the bucket. Football is a team sport and one player doesn't make a team. It is a nice first step in the right direction though.

The broncos have got to be kidding. They were going to get rid of Jay Cutler for a one hit wonder? I agree that Jay needs to mature a bit and stop spouting off at every chance, but he is a Pro-Bowler and will be for years to come. They can't pin their failures on him. The Broncos used to be a classy organization. This potential deal stinks and the fact that it fell through is going to make this a very interesting year to track the Broncos. Aside from all of the cast-offs they have collected. I wonder if the classiness of the Broncos' left with Mike Shanahan?

@Terry - I looked up the trade you mention. You're presenting incomplete information when you say this:

"one more thing - don't forget that last year they had the 7th choice and gave it to NO for their 2009 2nd rounder and then selected Mayo, defensive rookie of the year."

According to the Patriots website at http://www.patriots.com/history/index.cfm?ac=drafttrade

Jerod Mayo (1st round, 10th pick)
"Acquired from the New Orleans Saints on April 26, 2008 along with a third-round selected in the 2008 NFL Draft (78th overall) in exchange for a first-round selection in the 2008 NFL Draft (7th overall - DT Sedrick Ellis) and a fifth-round selection in the 2008 NFL Draft (164th overall)"

So your information is incorrect. They did not trade their 2008 #1 for NO's 2009 #2 (a simply preposterous thought, hence why I searched this out.)

NE gave up: 1st (#7) and 5th (#164) in 2008
NO gave up: 1st (#10) and 3rd (#78) in 2008

In other words, the Patriots exhanged their 5th rounder last year for a 3rd rounder last year in return for moving down three spots to take Jerod Mayo.

Not sure how you could ever have believed a team would trade their 1st rounder for the following year's 2nd rounder. There's a reason they have those draft-pick value charts that they rely on for making trades. NE didn't win super bowls because they dumped #1s for #2s... they did it because they were very shrewd in how they valued their picks, not because they devalued them the way so many fans are in trying to justify this trade. I'm stunned any fan of the NFL could think their team worked that way...

In the meantime, as more and more news continues to leak out about what other offers there were in the market for Cassel, and what other options NE had available, it becomes more and more clear that there were other non-football factors involved.

@Carl Wiley - it has now been reported the Cutler himself requested a trade several weeks ago, and that the Broncos were trying to accommodate his request:

http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/2009/writers/peter_king/03/01/freeagency/index.html

Even if that were not the case though, your team has a new HC. I don't find it the least bit surprising that he would want to bring in a QB that had tremendous success in his system the prior year.

What I'm really curious about, though, is what else would have been involved in either of those potential three-team deals. If Denver was going to give up Cutler and their #1, what else were they going to get back from DET or TB to balance the trade? I haven't seen that info leaked anywhere. You may have been pleasantly surprised.

@RC:

"uh, being a Chiefs fan myself, I was wondering why all the boasting about Chiefs being all that now that we got Cassel? He won't be able to do anything from his back-side plus he doesn't play O-line...or D-Line or D-back. The Chiefs need many more players than Cassel and Vrabel. At least they won't be drafting Sanchez like everybody was saying. Maybe they will get the OLB Curry to help rebuild the defense.

I'm not saying this is a bad move but only a drop in the bucket. Football is a team sport and one player doesn't make a team. It is a nice first step in the right direction though."

Trust in Pioli, my friend... you've got the real brains behind the Pats' success there in KC running your team now. He'll get everything on the right track.

The Vrabel flip the day before was perplexing. What was the rush? Why not wait a day on Cassel. You have to figuire that if there was a war between the two guys who know Cassel best Pioli/McDaniel then, the rest of the teams in a weak position behind center might have gotten nervous. Cassel now Knows he can do it and well at this level, that is huge.

BOTTOM LINE

COULD HAVE GOT MORE!!

(btw there isn't a whole lot of FA out there that will fill needs of the Pats)

Many of you are missing the point entirely. You are looking at the draft like a caste system, while all coaches know it is not remotely similar. The point is this. In the first three rounds of any NFL draft, the talent level of all of the players is identical with the exception of perhaps 1-5 prodigy players. And they are all susceptible to the same luck, fortune and misfortune regarding injuries. Talent levels falls off very slightly in rounds 4-6, but gems are still there to be mined based on compatibility with team systems and late blooming talent (like Brady, Cassel, Richard Dent and etc). The factories that spit out this talent (NCAA & small colleges) are simply that good, year end & year out. What a team usually ends up doing is grossly overpaying for talent in the first round of a draft that is no better than talent available in rounds 2-4. The Patriots know this. They also know that because of KC's dismal record, that the #34 was just as good as a #7 in the first round based on the type of talent they need to get better. But it will be a much more cap friendly pick. Second rounders don't get legendary financial deals. So the moral to this story is the Patriots have 4 identical picks in the first 2 rounds based on the talent they are pursuing. But they will spend a lot less money for it. They will use that money to buy proven fixes via free Agency like Julius Peppers, Fred Taylor or even Ray Lewis (to play alongside Mayo and Adalius Thomas). The Patriots got exactly what they wanted and so did KC. It was a win-win. You have to remember that very few Super Bowls are won with the first 5 picks in any draft. They are won from the second round to the last.

Many of you are missing the point entirely. You are looking at the draft like a caste system, while all coaches know it is not remotely similar. The point is this. In the first three rounds of any NFL draft, the talent level of all of the players is identical with the exception of perhaps 1-5 prodigy players. And they are all susceptible to the same luck, fortune and misfortune regarding injuries. Talent levels falls off very slightly in rounds 4-6, but gems are still there to be mined based on compatibility with team systems and late blooming talent (like Brady, Cassel, Richard Dent and etc). The factories that spit out this talent (NCAA & small colleges) are simply that good, year end & year out. What a team usually ends up doing is grossly overpaying for talent in the first round of a draft that is no better than talent available in rounds 2-4. The Patriots know this. They also know that because of KC's dismal record, that the #34 was just as good as a #7 in the first round based on the type of talent they need to get better. But it will be a much more cap friendly pick. Second rounders don't get legendary financial deals. So the moral to this story is the Patriots have 4 identical picks in the first 2 rounds based on the talent they are pursuing. But they will spend a lot less money for it. They will use that money to buy proven fixes via free Agency like Julius Peppers, Fred Taylor or even Ray Lewis (to play alongside Mayo and Adalius Thomas). The Patriots got exactly what they wanted and so did KC. It was a win-win. You have to remember that very few Super Bowls are won with the first 5 picks in any draft. They are won from the second round to the last.

"What a team usually ends up doing is grossly overpaying for talent in the first round of a draft that is no better than talent available in rounds 2-4. The Patriots know this. They also know that because of KC's dismal record, that the #34 was just as good as a #7 in the first round based on the type of talent they need to get better. But it will be a much more cap friendly pick. Second rounders don't get legendary financial deals. So the moral to this story is the Patriots have 4 identical picks in the first 2 rounds based on the talent they are pursuing. But they will spend a lot less money for it."

The #34 overall pick is just as good as the #7 overall pick? Are you insane?

The #7 pick could be traded to pick up two picks roughly worth the #34 pick. Here is the chart that NFL GMs and coaches use to assign value to draft picks when making trades:
http://sports.espn.go.com/nfl/draft06/news/story?id=2410670

KC's #3 overall pick is worth 2,200 points. The #34 overall pick is worth 560 points. In other words, that #3 pick is worth more than three high second-rounders.

It cracks me up to see people claiming the Pats don't want a first rounder because they're collecting second rounders and ignoring the relative value of the picks: the first rounders that the Pats could have had can be converted into multiple second rounders if that were the goal. This is what the Pats were good at with Pioli at the helm, and why they won multiple super bowls... stockpiling picks and manipulating the draft board. Taking fewer picks than they could have had otherwise is the exact opposite of the very shrewd strategy that made them so succesful.

Forgot to tackle this nugget:

"What a team usually ends up doing is grossly overpaying for talent in the first round of a draft that is no better than talent available in rounds 2-4"

I agree that the very top picks are grossly overpaid, and that is certain to be a point of contention in the upcoming CBA negotiations, as the veterans seem to finally have realized that in a league with a salary cap, all those dollars that are paid to unproven rookies are coming straight out of the pockets of experienced veterans.

But as for your comment that "the talent in the first round of a draft is no better than the talent in rounds 2-4"... please share your facts that back this up?

Pioli is not BB son in law he is Bill Parcells son in law. So that has nothing to do with the trade. The pats made the move because now they get an early second round pick to draft a guy like clay matthews who will take over vrabels spot and continue the transition to a young fast linebacking core. Also by freeing up the cap space they can now go sign a guy like shawn springs with a little more freedom if it does not work out. Good deal if you consider Cassel was almost cut last off season, and vrabel would have been potentially cut or had limited reps this season.

Remember 6 weeks ago when people questioned their decision to franchise Cassel? Now people want to criticize them for ONLY getting the 34th pick. The fact is, the Pats need cap space immediately to finalize a trade for Julius Pepers.

Keep deluding yourselves and fanwanking reasons why they intentionally took less, fellas. The draft pick value chart proves you wrong. I'm out--there isn't an intelligent exchange to be had here anymore.

Bucs would have given DENVER their first and third round picks for Cutler, Denver would have given New England their second round pick for Cassel. Learn the whole story before saying how stupid the pat's organization is.

The idea that some posters have on here that Belichick would do his buddy Scott a favor is LAUGHABLE. Belichick does nobody any favors. He is probably the least sentimental man in sports.

I also find it very hard to believe the Broncos were willing to part with Cutler for only Cassel in return. That bird don't fly.

"The idea that some posters have on here that Belichick would do his buddy Scott a favor is LAUGHABLE. Belichick does nobody any favors. He is probably the least sentimental man in sports."

And yet he settled for a 2nd rounder, when there were two offers that would have brought more value in return. NE built their success through the draft, via shrewd personnel decisions and maximizing the value of their picks. The Patriots have never been a team to discount the value of a player so much. As has been speculated, I guess the real brains behind that whole strategy must have been Pioli all along.

"I also find it very hard to believe the Broncos were willing to part with Cutler for only Cassel in return. That bird don't fly."

Good for you. Peter King reports that Cutler requested a trade a couple weeks ago, and Minnesota is now talking with Denver about moving him. Regardless of what you believe, Cutler is crying about wanting out and McDaniels wanted his boy Cassel to follow him to Denver.

and to add to that last comment, both proposed trades that involved Denver included a third team: either Detroit or Tampa. In other words, it would never have been just Cutler and Cassel involved, or there would have been no third party.

SOme of you double posters are awesome as I cannot get enough of your insight. Like the guy who says that all the players are basically the same except for 4-5 prodigy players. Wow and to think I got to keep scrolling down and didn't have to avert my eyes back. Perhaps we should just get rid of the first two rounds, that would save alot of signing bonus dough. Now that is some awesome insight, shall I triple post?

Ok, lets calm down and get away from the cloak and dagger stuff, This was a good trade for the Pats, Number one because after playing and having a good year Cassel thinks he should be a starter, now realistically, would anyone start him ahead of Brady? If you asked Matt himself would he say he should start instead of Brady? Don't get me wrong I am not a Pats fan but the man was coming off of a 16-0 season with the only lost coming in the superbowl because of the Giants heroic O and D play, And we are talking about Bill Belichick laser focus no distractions,(QB controversy) lets get another superbowl, He's got good picks (they dont need Great picks, they are already a very good team) Cap money to spare and a starting QB thats going to be around for awhile.

Has anyone considered the possibility that BB didn't want Cassel to end up of a closer competitor? He knows Denver is a lot closer to contending than KC even with Cassel and Vrabel. He now gets a draft pick that is fairly high to go along with a ton of freed up cap space. We all know that there teh Pats have very few peers when it comes to evaluating lower round talent. Bill Polian at Indy and Bill Parcells at Miami come to mind.

Thanks for the challenge mj. In fact, it is you who are delusional, if you think that there is any significant difference between players drafted in the first 4 rounds of the NFL draft. We are essentially talking about 32 teams with a combined total of 1500 jobs to offer. The vast majority of which are already taken by 2nd-5th rounders. This is indexed to a college prep system that is geared up to produce literally 10s of thousands of available players, eligible to draft every single, fracking year! Differences do emerge base on a lot of factors such as strength of program, conference strength, coaching & coachability and etc. But if you only use individual talent as the basis (as you are apparently doing), then you are way, way off. Speed, height, weight, strength, quickness, toughness, mobility, agile, good hands (catching), good feet (mobility & balance), guile, intelligence, exists in equal abundance & measure, along with slowness, stupidity, dumbness, weakness, cowardice, poor hands, and etc throughout the draft. We are talking 10's of thousands of players to choose from here. The top of a draft (meaning the first 2-4 rounds) is focused on the more prominent players from the top programs and the exceptional players from other programs. The rest of the draft is focused on top kids from other programs along with promising developmental prospects from top programs that didn't peak or excel in college. The NFL is littered with such players. and you have to also remember this. Most of the total available talent isn't even drafted at all! Many make it as free agents & outperform 1st round picks. Matt Cassel himself was only one round short of being a free agent. And I for one would take him today over Philip Rivers, Jay Cutler, Matt Hasselbach, Jake Delhomme, Vince Young, Carson Palmer, Matt Leinart and a host of others, too numerous to mention.
I rest my case with you with this. If you are correct, then the Detroit Lions, Oakland Raiders, Miami Dolphins (pre Parcells), KC Chiefs and other perrennial high first round drafters should be perrennial playoff teams and Super Bowl contenders. Not remotely the case! Parcells himself is a firm believer of trading down into the middle rounds where you get more bang for the buck. In fact, the entire premise of the old AFL was based on the theory that there was always an overabundance of supply (talent) to meet the demands of the few available jobs. The late great Coach, George Allen used to trade away all of his draft choices up to the 4th round for proven veteran players. And his pretext was that players available in the latter rounds were just as good and abundant as early round prospects. He was a prodiguos winner. Modern teams like the Bears, Patriots, Eagles and Cowboys practicce this also to a lesser degree. And it sure didn't take the AFL with all of their band of free agents and "less than prime" draft picks very long to force a competitive merger, and surpass the NFL in team dominance. History backs my claim mj. Not yours. You are totally enrolled in the marketing side of the NFL Draft versus the real operational side.
Only time will tell whether the Cassel trade was a good one. But to my eyes, the Patriots converted a very talented 7th round pick into an earlier round opportunity this year, while freeing up cash to pursue a guy like Peppers and/or Ray Lewis who can immediately help them get back to a Super Bowl (while training the 4 fast, young energetic early prospects from the first 2 rounds of this upcoming draft).

"I rest my case with you with this."

Can't rest a case you haven't made.

I can count. I know how many colleges there are. I know what college football programs are like, etc, etc, yada yada yada... none of that has anything to do with the relative value of draft picks, or what percentage of players, starters, or even pro-bowlers come from what round of the draft.

Show me some FACTS, not a long-winded opinion piece with nothing to back it up.

"History backs my claim mj. Not yours."

The statistics I've seen don't support your position. As you go deeper in the draft, the percentage of players drafted who make the team drops, as does the percentage of players who win starting jobs.

I eagerly await the facts and statistics that prove your position. Short of that, I'll believe it when teams began passing on their picks in the draft--which is an option available to them--so that they can pick later because you believe the late round picks have the same value.

"But to my eyes, the Patriots converted a very talented 7th round pick into an earlier round opportunity this year,"

So high picks are no better than late picks, but yet you give credit for getting an "earlier round opportunity". Make up your mind, either the higher picks are better or they're not. And if they're not, then you should be criticizing the Pats for taking a 2nd rounder as opposed to a 3rd. Or a 5th. Or how about a 7th?

"while freeing up cash to pursue a guy like Peppers and/or Ray Lewis who can immediately help them get back to a Super Bowl"

Keep chasing your tail, dude. They could have traded him for your sweaty jock and they'd free up the same amount of cap space--the amount of cap space recovered has zero impact and is not a valid argument on which to evaluate the trade, whether they get 10 first round picks or a 7th round pick, they free the cap space. It. Is. Irrelevant.

Interesting to read so many people comparing the talent from rounds 1-4. Lets see how this works out over the last 10 years. #3 or #34??
08' Matt Ryan or Devin Thomas
07' Joe Thomas or Paul Posluszny
06' Vince Young or D'Qwell Jackson
05' Braylon Edwards or Brodney Pool
04' Larry Fitzgerald or Chris Snee
03' Andre Johnson or Boss Bailey
02' Joey Harrington or DeShaun Foster
01' Gerard Warren or Kyle Vanden Bosch
00' Chris Samuels or Mark Roman
99' Akili Smith or Chris Terry
As you can see there is a great disparity between #3 talent and #34 talent especially over the last 6 years.
So Enough with that.
The most sucessful NFL francise over the last 10 years made a move, and for better or worse we as fans must live with it. Who really knows what that Mad scientist (BB) is cooking up in his lab. Just sit back and enjoy the ride.

Don't let John see that, COMA! He has proof that just as many late rounders (and he even adds in undrafted free agents!) are successful as the early picks! We're all being duped!!

Shhhh! I thought that information was declassified years ago.

I'm not arguing that you can't find late round talent, and to help your point John there might be no better person then BB to do Just that. Looking at the Pats when picking 32-63 over the last few years it seems a little worse then a toss up.
Terrence Wheatley MISS
Chad Jackson MISS
Logan Mankins HIT
Benjamin Watson HIT
Marquise Hill MISS
Eugene Wilson MISS
Bethel Johnson MISS
Matt Light HIT
Adrian Klemm MISS
Kevin Faulk HIT

But is you look at the pats Picks 1-32 it's almost can't miss.
Damien Woody HIT
Andy Katzenmoyer MISS
Richard Seymour HIT
Daniel Graham HIT
Ty Warren HIT
Vince Wilfork HIT
Laurence Maroney TBD
Brandon Meriweather TBD
Jerod Mayo HIT

Wouldn't you rather have what's been proven to be almost a sure thing 1st rounder?
With that being said
As for the Cap room freed up by the deal I agree with MJ, but the deciding factor is WHEN that money was freed up. The can now activly make a play on some of the bigger names with out having to worry about puting together something last min.
I'd rather Free up the cash early and get a lower UNPROVEN pick and a PROVEN VET then to hang on for a higher round UNPROVEN pick and Miss out on the PROVEN VET!

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I recently came across your blog and have been reading along. I thought I would leave my first comment. I don't know what to say except that I have enjoyed reading. Nice blog. I will keep visiting this blog very often.

Sarah

http://www.craigslistdecoded.info